From Zero to Hero: Ditching Naturopathy for Science | Against Medical Advice 027

Britt Marie Hermes became a naturopath because she believed there was a better way to connect with patients…but what actually happened will blow your mind.


  1. Dropdeadkindness on April 19, 2019 at 5:59 pm

    I wish they would have spoken over the “natural approaches” that do work, or any positive results she experienced during her time working as a naturopath. It sucks that he mocked eastern medicine so often as a whole calling it “witchcraft” and to be linked to the “placebo” effect. There are several fantastic points being made in this interview though, very well done. I hate that this wonderful woman has to suffer for standing up for her beliefs and working to effect positive change.

  2. nichole symington on April 19, 2019 at 5:59 pm

    Wow this is so ignorant.
    Fucking idiots!
    Go see your doc that took 0 classes in nutrition to conceal your ignorant symptoms but nvr to discover your underlying causes…therefore you’ll always be this ignorant. Fucking IDIOTSSSS

  3. Jonathan Winters on April 19, 2019 at 5:59 pm

    ZDoggMD, this is an incredibly biased, one-sided interview. Trolls like you prevent the world from advancing. Maybe if you had some hair on your head you’d have enough confidence and wit to produce a valuable interview.

  4. Christina on April 19, 2019 at 6:00 pm

    I was enjoying watching your videos until you called Multiple Chemical Sensitivities psychosomatic. A better name for it is TILT (Toxicant Induced Loss of Tolerance) and it’s very real and very debilitating/isolating. This type of discrimination is why people stop seeing conventional doctors and go to naturoapths or essentially become their own doctors (which is overwhelming). I don’t trust naturopaths but you damn well better believe I’m not going to see a conventional doctor who disrespects me and has no understanding of my illness. How arrogant to think you have every illness all figured out. Did you know that MS was once attributed to conversion disorder (hysteria with physical symptoms)? Please open your mind and be open to the idea that science is evolving and we currently do not know everything. Your line of thinking is extremely damaging to patients.

  5. Michelle Eaton on April 19, 2019 at 6:01 pm

    An utterly phenomenal interview — the subject matter, the discussion, the authenticity of the former naturopathy doctor, and on and on. I look forward to your making more videos like this one. Medicine 3.0. Bravo, Dr. ZDogg!

  6. Room 101 on April 19, 2019 at 6:02 pm

    I’d love to see you interview Kelly Brogan!

  7. TAYsearch on April 19, 2019 at 6:04 pm

    I watched 2
    Minutes and I was bored . She’s entitled too her truth. But she must realize that her worldview is not the world’s view. PERIOD.

  8. Jenny Waldensi on April 19, 2019 at 6:05 pm

    I appreciate hearing Britt Hermes’ honest explanations and agree that the naturopath is not a true doctor, nor truly able to help (any more than a chiropractor can) — outside of their common sense guidance like "eat more fruits and veggies, drink more water, not soda, get away from the tv and outdoors for exercise" etc. You don’t have to pay someone $100 a visit for what you can get free from the Internet or a health book. HOWEVER! (Sorry for "yelling"….) The pollution to the ears of all the foul language used so commonly today isn’t healthy to mind or heart, either. It is not professional to curse, it isn’t intelligent, clean, or upright to curse. So, ZDogg, especially, please clean up your language and show some respect to your listeners! We don’t all have "potty mouth", and don’t all enjoy hearing it. The truth doesn’t need cursing to prove its true. Thanks.

  9. Jade Harris on April 19, 2019 at 6:06 pm

    Dermatologists are assholes.

  10. Adam Levison on April 19, 2019 at 6:09 pm

    The acceptance rates of naturopathic schools is over 50% for most of their schools. This is setting the bar way too low. I thought about going and signed up to get emails. Unfortunately, the naturopathic schools spam me with mail and emails, requesting that I join. Why are they so desperate for students? I’ve signed up for emails with osteopathic and allopathic medical schools and and they do not have to advertise their programs. I’m currently getting ready to apply to osteopathic school. Although I hated ZDogg after his vegan video, this one is definitely true. Many of my vegan friends are so easily swayed by homeopathy and naturopathic school but the evidence isn’t there, and the training is mediocre compared to normal medical schools.

  11. Woody Woodlstein on April 19, 2019 at 6:09 pm

    Nds are dangerous deranged zombies.

  12. Sinforoso Birung on April 19, 2019 at 6:14 pm

    To get relieved of my recurring gout and hypertension, a naturopath advised me a list of restrictions on my food: 1) carb from grains 2) processed sugar 3) trans fats 4) meat of farmed animal/fish and 5) any food rich in Omega He recommended a ketogenic diet for a well defined healthy food – 70% good fat, 25% protein and 5% carb from organic vegetables or tubers (as carb in fibrous medium offsets its trigger to inflammation). Other advice to fine tune my keto diet and plant-based supplements were also given by my ND. I did as advised. Relief from gouty arthritis and a normal BP of 130-140/80-90 were achieved for the last 2 years. I am now off my pharmaceutical meds – amlodypine besilate & colchicin. NOW, TELL ME BRITT, WAS I HELPED TO WELLNESS BY A WOO?

  13. jordan Michael on April 19, 2019 at 6:17 pm

    Saying that western medicine is 100% way to go, is just as crazy. As saying Naturopathic medicine is 100% the way to go. It’s just way too much to absolute!! There benefits to both sides

  14. Tasha Gang on April 19, 2019 at 6:18 pm

    I tried to sit through this interview but the more I kept hearing them both say Herb’s aren’t backed by the FDA made me wonder who really taught her. Herbs are regulated by the FDA but they can’t be dont so as drugs or food. Herbs can’t be considered drugs because you can’t patent nature (this was a SUPREME COURT CASE) this is why they will take willow bark and synthetically make it into Asprin. They have been trying to patent nature for year but they can’t. They did not create it, a herb can’t be formulated! This lady was in the wrong field, she internally lacked passion becasue ive seen NDs work micracles she is skecky.

  15. Deanne L on April 19, 2019 at 6:19 pm

    This was so great!! As someone with complex and chronic diseases, I am sometimes frustrated with the amount of specialists I see, medicine I take, and the general state of health care in Canada. So, I did see a naturopath to see if they could do more for me. It left such a sour taste in my mouth. He was very pushy about tinctures and supplements that cost a lot of money. One supplement he suggested I questioned on because I am aware it could interact with a prescription I take. He said “oh it’s such a low dose it can’t interact with your xyz.” I replied, “then how can there be any therapeutic value?” He couldn’t answer, and with that I was out and wouldn’t see a naturopath again.

  16. philip mullins on April 19, 2019 at 6:20 pm

    If a naturopath provides a service with complete passion and they believe that the service that they provide is 100% correct even if is or it is not , they then can not be called unethical but if someone like this person provides a service and they take money off a patient and they know that the service is not correct i think they could be called unethical .
    This person was prepared to continue practising naturopathy until she found another job then she turned on naturopaths .
    Does she receive any money for expressing her views ?

  17. Amber Marie on April 19, 2019 at 6:20 pm

    Why is he so pompous??? Definitely has that doctor God complex.

  18. Mary Poole on April 19, 2019 at 6:21 pm

    FDA-AMA—etc. are Glorified Drug Dealers for Big-Pharma—Allopathic Pharmaceutical Drugs is Rockerfellers Medicine—why so many naturopath/holistic doctors deaths—alternative naturopath/holistic health vs. Rockerfeller Allopathic Medicine—

  19. Megan Simenc on April 19, 2019 at 6:24 pm

    Thank you so much for this enlightening conversation.

  20. OWild1Child on April 19, 2019 at 6:25 pm

    Make me throw up! THIS is why the USA is riddled with disease. We have a DISEASE management system that is dominating with propaganda! My dad was recovered from a heart attack age 52 by a naturopathic doctor (healthy no meds and is now 75 years old!) My brother was injured with an endoscopy (damaged his pancreas) Now he is in CRITICAL condition with hemorrhagic pancreatitis, liver and kidney failure and is only 54 yo! We are on our knees. We need a miracle. (only option presented to him is the Whipple procedure- not good:( Numerous friends and family are now healthy as NDs are licensed in many states! Thank God! GO to an ND before you ever consider going to an MD and getting pumped full of drugs, then surgery, then they throw you out once they have milked you dry (no more money). Thank God for emergency med and surgeons, they definitely have a place in health care… but PCP, etc, no thank you! They ONLY know what pharma TELLS them.

  21. Blake Cernosek on April 19, 2019 at 6:26 pm

    Yo… Z! I want to hear more about what you think about multiple chemical sensitives and the root of what you think, “causes” them.

    Thanks for keeping it real my brotha.

  22. Ryan Madrid on April 19, 2019 at 6:27 pm

    Went into this video not bec I’m into naturopathy, but I’ve into a lot of the nutrition topics, such as that by Dr Cate Shanahan, Michael Pollan, and a bunch of books that discuss diet and inflammation. Wondering if you guys are gonna take that up soon!

  23. lawrence heimsoth on April 19, 2019 at 6:27 pm

    Thank you for this candid interview and your real openness to criticism. Thank you for staying strong and trying so hard to help yourselves and others. I am helping an Amish friend who is being bounced around different therapies, lots of costs and still suffering greatly. This was new information for me and my desired research goal was unbiased information somehow. Thank you again so much, you guys are very inspiring to me.

  24. Joygernaut M on April 19, 2019 at 6:33 pm

    You know what they call “alternative medicine” that actually works? MEDICINE!

  25. Jared Christopher on April 19, 2019 at 6:34 pm

    ZDoggMD & Brit Hermes: A common reason for failure to prescribe an indicated homeopathic remedy is the reliance on a few symptoms such as "redness, itching, and inflammation." These are only 3 extremely general symptoms, each of which, whether taken together or by themselves, can be found in common among thousands of homeopathic remedies. That these 3 symptoms proceed a puncture wound adds additional specificity, but still does not present a clear enough picture for appropriate remedy selection, thus an indicated remedy will not be found and the patient will be frustrated. The placebo effect may indeed occur in rather easily influenced patients, but since it is not exclusive to any one modality in particular, it would not differ from the placebo effect of administering a contraindicated pharmaceutical which also often occurs in medicine. However, homeopathy has been documented to outperform placebo in numerous case studies, and the study of its mechanisms remains an underfunded, unanswered call to action. The most convincing argument, though, for homeopathy’s effect on the body are provings (discussed below). Any person with courage can attempt a proving, though great care must be taken and a licensed homeopath should be guiding the proving. The placebo effect seems to be a force capable of improving patient health and should thus be studied on its own, and indeed, it has been written about in a book titled "Suggestible You," which contains scientific research and is available for purchase on Amazon for your enjoyment.

    Reliance on general, non-specific symptoms is an excellent choice if one wishes to prescribe a pharmaceutical, but is largely a shot in the dark if selecting a homeopathic remedy. Unfortunately, it seems your professor was not educated in proper homeopathic technique. Homeopathic remedies are prescribed most notably and with documented success in German hospitals, Indian clinics, and Greece. I recommend visiting to read about the lifetime clinical successes of homeopath George Vithoulkas. There you can read about homeopathic mechanisms, clinical trials, and the like. You can also YouTube Rajan Sankaran, Sujit Chatterjee, or Roger Morrison to listen to documented case reports with patient testaments and methodical procedures and remedy choice explained in greater detail.

    The selection of a homeopathic remedy first begins with an extensive and detailed patient intake, considering first mental symptoms (state of mind/emotions), general symptoms (body temp, effect of motion on symptoms, etc.), physical symptoms, and if possible, strange, rare and peculiar symptoms (e.g. the wound itches only when exposed to water). Gathering this information requires at least an hour, and once finished, requires research in homeopathic materia medicas, which supply documented remedy "provings" which began in the 1800s and continue thru today. There are thousands of homeopathic materia medica in medical libraries and can also be searched for online. Here is the link for the materia medica for apis, documented by William Boericke, MD:

    All provings of the same remedy present with similar symptoms, and these symptoms are documented and called "keynotes." Redness, inflammation, and itching are symptoms of apis, but are not keynotes. Some keynotes unique to apis include an extremely tender, stinging type of pain; worse in the afternoon; aggravated by heat and motion; better with cold application. To contrast, cantharis (fly bite) shows a wound with a raw, burning pain; worse from cold. Both remedies, however, may present with redness, inflammation, and itching. It is necessary to spend time with a patient to understand the symptom picture in a detailed manner, then either search through materia medicas for similar symptom pictures, or use technology such as Radar OPUS or Vithoulkas Compass to input symptoms into programs that match symptoms with remedies.

    Provings are an extremely important concept in homeopathy. If you continually take a homeopathic remedy in great frequency, you will begin to experience symptoms associated with the exposure to that substance in non-homeopathic doses. A spider bite for example, will produce many similar symptoms in a group of people bitten by the same spider, but also will affect each person differently depending on their constitution and inborn tissue weaknesses. Inborn tissue weaknesses are defined by genetics. For example, some people may secondarily experience a headache along with the wound, others may become quite irritable, angry or weepy, and others may become rather tired. These differences are the most important part of homeopathic prescription. As you can see, the approach between the selection of a pharmaceutical and the selection of a homeopathic remedy is polar opposite.

  26. aqueen13 on April 19, 2019 at 6:35 pm

    Science is not, nor never will be complete… we are constantly researching and expanding on our understanding of this world and the miraculous nature of the human body. There is a lot of wisdom that has been around for centuries found in eastern medicine that has never been studied but helps a ton of people. Just because it hasn’t gone through enough testing to prove itself to the western community does not mean it isn’t helpful. It just means it needs more researchers who are unbiased proving its efficacy (or its fallacies). I had a doctor tell me something I was doing hadn’t been proven effective… but it was already helping me feel better when others things hadn’t helped, so why would I stop what helped because science hadn’t caught up with my experience yet? Science has a lot to learn. I believe in it, yes, but if we didn’t have so much more to learn than we wouldn’t need any more scientists… and that idea is just absurd. There is so much bias on both sides… we all need to open our minds and see there is good from alternative care and modern medicine. There are also negatives to both types of care. I just wish everyone on both sides would stop acting so brainwashed and logically see the value of both and the continued research needed for both.

  27. Djo Briz on April 19, 2019 at 6:35 pm

    Brit, I can recommend a very good naturopath her name is Barbara O’Neill. The old guys skin color is totally irrelevant by the way.. Doctors and lawyers have an important place in society. However, I noticed a wikipedia article which is absolutely biased and refers to naturopathy as a pseudoscience. This is a lie. According to the American Cancer Society, "scientific evidence does not support claims that naturopathic medicine can cure cancer or any other disease". Among many other outright lies. The medical industry councils etc are obviously actively discrediting the naturopathy industry, its all economics. Medical doctors treat illness and disease with synthetic drugs manufactured by
    giant corporations. Naturopaths use plant based medicine. Medical scientists and pharmaceutical corporations can’t legally patent a natural organism such as a common plant (for now..) and synthetic variations of them are manufactured. According to you Britt Hermes of the cancer society, naturopath student programs are problematic because “As a naturopath [student], you are making justifications to make the rules and to fudge the standards of how to interpret research all along the way. Because if you don’t, you’re not left with anything, basically”.
    Well, I would say the opposite and in fact if my primary care physician is not making justifications to make rules and is not ‘fudging’ the standards of interpreted research to suit my individual case then I’d potentially have a problem.

  28. Sapient Budgie on April 19, 2019 at 6:38 pm

    Take a probiotic for your GI tract. She looks like shit. May need a Naturopathic Doctor.

  29. Leoninmiami on April 19, 2019 at 6:40 pm

    You are incredible, amazing and dare I say, A hero? Not you zDog :-p

  30. Mary Poole on April 19, 2019 at 6:41 pm

    Why did she do Toxic Steroids ?????

  31. Chelsea R on April 19, 2019 at 6:42 pm

    I feel this is extremely biased and sheds a negative light on actual alternative medicine.

    My background is I work in EMS on the ambulance and in the ER, I’m furthering my career in medicine as well because I believe in it 100% as I believe in science 100%. I got into alternative medicine because I am surrounded by foreigners who practice and have had alternative medicine in their countries for many centuries and these ppl are very healthy in general compared to Americans. I also don’t like to take many medicines for myself if I don’t need to take them, if I can use a preventative that will help to be… well… preventative and may lessen my chance of having to take meds I think that’s great. I also enjoy the learning of how our ancestors used to use certain herbs for certain issues and how our modern day medicine was derived from them and still use these herbs in the compounds.

    Now I think Britt went to a horrible school, and in my opinion a fake school. She also worked with what I would call fake homeopaths. The school I study from for alternative medicine is very good. It’s most reiterated thing is that homeopathic medicine must be taken side by side with modern day medicine. You can go to a homeopathic doctor but before you take their advice you must speak with your pcp and have their approval for certain herbs or accupunture or whatever else the homeopathy advised. My school also disapproves of these "supplements" and make it very clear that if you are not growing the herbs yourself (which they believe you should have gone to school for botany and herbology) then you need to go to the persons or facility you are getting your herbs from and make sure they have proper qualifications and storing. I am extremely surprised by Britts experience as my school sounds like the complete opposite of hers.

    I have worked in clinics as a second job (since in EMS we don’t make that much an hr lol. 🙁 ) that had an alternative medicine practitioner out of it side by side with the doctor. She made it very clear to her patients that she herself was not a doctor and she had everything approved by the actual doctor before giving any herbal usage advice. But things pertaining to diet and such didn’t require approval from the doctor.

    I really think it may be the area this Britt women (and doctor Z) lived in or maybe I’m just in a good area and happened to pick a good school, because I have never met any alternative medicine practioners that give random supplements or try to treat cancer or any such thing. Very crazy indeed. Even our hospitals give the option to our patients if they’d like to try some select areas of Alternative medicine (mostly pertaining to aromatherapy, meditation and they like) which I think would be beneficial in the fact that it would help relax the pts minds and bodies, which in turn makes them happy and everyone in the medical field knows that a positive attitude is keys in helping pts to heal.

    Alternative medicine can only be used side by side with regular medicine. It cannot be used alone period. Only quacks believe it is a stand alone. It’s mostly a preventative, relaxation and placebo effect medicine. Which are all legit and positive for the patient. It cannot cure cancer or things like this. It’s very good for topical issues and other things like this. But drinking Hawthorne tea isn’t gonna cure your high BP, lol. It’s also worth noting here that my school is very serious about herbal dosages. You might think you can take as much herbs as you want, but that’s not the case. You have to take the right dosage just like western pills. And certain herbs you can only ingest so much per day, week, month(s), and year or else you can have negative side effects. Also you must check contraindications from herbs if combined with western pills or if you have any medical history. If your asthmatic you can’t take certain herbs or pregnant or have chf. Alot goes into alternative medicine. It’s not just herbs galore and fancy pants white ppl magic. It must be taken very seriously if your using herbs and any schools that don’t teach this are fake in my opinion.

    But again it may be my region and the community I’m surrounded by that I’ve had a positive and what I believe to be the correct teachings. And Britt and Dr. Z have ran into crazy ass quacks. Like really blood letting? Wtf. Cool to read about from a historical and medical stand point (as in learning would prior doctors thought worked) not cool to actually practice. When she said they teach that I knew for sure that they are not a legit alternative medicine school. Can you imagine how many horrible life threatening infections these ppl are about to cause?! Smdh.

  32. Yashur Sun Theamericanindian on April 19, 2019 at 6:43 pm

    I came here for a professional outlook on becoming an ND. I am open to both sides to make sure this is the path I want to be on. By your dialogue and sarcasm during the interview made me want to become an ND even more. Thank you guys

  33. Keri 81 on April 19, 2019 at 6:43 pm

    These comments are truly horrifying. I see people somehow trying to equate "Western" (science based medicine) with "Eastern" ( formerly known as Traditional Chinese Medicine) and claiming they can work together. No, they absolutely cannot and if you are pushing "eastern medicine" you are pushing propaganda from one of the worst dictators of our time; Mao Zedong. Mao marketed traditional medicine because his country did not have access to actual science based education and medicines. He himself did not believe it but it was something he could use to keep the ailing and suffering citizens placated. It was also something he could sell to the West who fell for it because of their curiosity of the mysterious "orient". I used to have a very informative article on the subject but I got a new phone and lost all my bookmarked pages. So, I cannot find it but this one is pretty good despite coming from Salon. I will also share a link in the comments about the horrible abuse, extinction and endangerment of wildlife "eastern medicine" causes. Do you really want to be a part of that movement? Ignorance of the true origin of Eastern medicine is no excuse when most of it is just so illogical and not based on evidence but now that you know the origins and there can be no doubt it’s useless and harmful there’s no excuse to continue pushing "eastern medicine", homeopathy or naturopathy.

  34. Kerryanne on April 19, 2019 at 6:44 pm

    This is what I don’t understand. I’ve always had health problems so I’ve had plenty of negative and positive experiences with multiple specialists. I had cystic acne as a teen and saw a dermatology who was brilliant. I saw an endocrinologist for 7 years who I didn’t particularly like so when a new one became available in my local area I switched and now it’s great and my health is certainly improving. I saw a Dietitian who treated me like all of their other patients and their advice didn’t help me. I didn’t decide to do the opposite of this Dietitian I actually became a Dietitian instead because I wanted to ensure people like me do receive proper help they need. I’ve done anatomy, 3 physiology subjects, biochemistry subjects, and all other background science subjects for 2 years. Then you get to the nutritional assessment and medical nutrition therapy etc for 3rd year, then 1 year of work placement in hospitals and clinics. The difference is I know what happens at the cellular level everyone I ask in the naturopathic/homeopathic scene either can’t or wont explain what happens to a vitamin beyond ingestion.

  35. Ronald E on April 19, 2019 at 6:44 pm

    This makes no sense. She’s going on about not FDA approved. The FDA is backing big pharma. Big pharma is the biggest cashcow in the world. Period. The doctor can prescribe over the counter Vitamin D and the supplement stores sell the same vitamin D. However the vitamin shop supplements are not FDA approved. The reason all supplements are not FDA approved is because people would get healthy with less doctor visits. If big pharma gives you a medication, you could have another side effect and issue come up which keeps the sick staying sick. I’m not a naturopath but I think the approach and tests are pretty spot on considering all the tests done are legit tests that hospitals offer labs for. Naturopaths just put it in a basket with a bow on it for you, instead of jumping through hoops with MDs. Which is what I’m currently doing. My two cents. But what do I know.

  36. sarah Talbert on April 19, 2019 at 6:45 pm

    found the ukrain wikipedia page and this incident is briefly mentioned. very interesting.

  37. ThisorThat on April 19, 2019 at 6:46 pm

    Ask me what drives me almost as crazy as Homeopathy ? Go ahead…ask me…

  38. Jim B. on April 19, 2019 at 6:47 pm

    My family has benefited several times using naturopathy methods with small "pre" like conditions. I think this is the best route for lifestyle early intervention needs. The issue is that there are some within the practice that make very dangerous and scary claims. Like chiropractic care I think there is a place for both naturopahty and traditional medical care to coordinate together. Giving a pill for high BP in the 140/90 range is a lifetime sentence to medication while naturopathy can help. One big concern is that traditional medicine doesn’t treat the person holistically. If this changed so much could change…

  39. bmw320 on April 19, 2019 at 6:47 pm

    lol she is trying to convince people that the Kitten is more dangerous than the Tiger, even regular medicine have thousands of time more horrific, and horror stories way worse than what she had mentioned, the side affects of the drugs and doctors mistakes have killed and destroyed the life of many people.

  40. Mary Poole on April 19, 2019 at 6:47 pm

    From Hero to Zero—science based allopathic pharmaceutical drugs vs/ naturopath/holistic alternative medicine —

  41. Jackie H on April 19, 2019 at 6:48 pm

    Mind is a powerful thing. I do believe in supplements but also science, I believe in both – why so wrong. I will need to research thx. I don’t believe homeopathy that is fake -knew that for 30 yrs. medicine does disrespect woman I know i got it many times plus I am in health care. So true , over treat with antibiotics and treat so you don’t get sued but not the patients. Sanitizer suck it is dumb. It mandatory in the hospitals to use it. Waste my time to use it then wash my hands. That is not evidence base -it’s opposite thx for agreeing.

  42. Gene Laratonda on April 19, 2019 at 6:52 pm

    People are waking up to the Carnegie and Rockefeller b******* flexer report. I guess when you use science here you mean that is a patented Pharmaceutical as opposed to the natural occurring unpatented medicine.

  43. Johnny Thompson on April 19, 2019 at 6:53 pm

    Most doctors now are just drug pushers for big pharma, period. More people die under the care of AMA Medical Doctors than under the care of true Naturopaths.

  44. ea villacorta on April 19, 2019 at 6:55 pm

    Ok at the most elementary level of journalism (if that is what he was trying to do), this interview was virtually one sided and carried on with a comedic tone. If ZDogg is seriously curious about the ND profession then he should have invited an ND to actually have an opposing view. Also noticed that when ZDogg asked Hermes what her experience with homeopathy was she could not give him any examples of any actual patients yet they both trashed it. If you want to be taken seriously in this topic as a scientist, doctor put your bias and ego aside when you do your investigation and then show us your findings. And should you invite an ND and Hermes again try to remain neutral and simply let the truth speak for itself.

  45. Shylee Kaczmarek on April 19, 2019 at 6:56 pm

    Eye opening

  46. Wellness and Greatness on April 19, 2019 at 6:56 pm

    Hi, I’m a naturopathic doctor in Ontario who graduated from Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine (CCNM) in 2017. I think Hermes does expose a lot of weaknesses in the naturopathic profession. I agree that the education should be more robust, and I do think there should be residencies in place before being in charge of people’s lives. As a new practitioner who started seeing patients in June 2018, I am discovering I do have a lot of knowledge gaps that should have been covered in my schooling. Instead I have to learn it all myself or with extra courses. I am considering applying to medical school to see how vast those gaps are to try and fill them.

    I do however want to mention though that while I agree with many things that Britt says, I do want to point out that she graduated a while ago. Also the people who she was working with (her supervisors and managers) probably graduated a decent time ago as well. I do not know what the naturopathic education system was like back then, but I do not think that old system exists now. The field of Naturopathic Medicine is changing, at least in Canada. It is changing to keep patient safety as the number one priority.

    For starters, at CCNM homeopathy is no longer a required course that you must take each of the four years. It is an elective now. So students have the option to not take homeopathy courses beyond first year. Why not eliminate the subject entirely? Unfortunately, become there is a division between Naturopathic Doctors themselves. There are some old school NDs who want to keep homeopathy in the profession. There are some who want to have no affiliation with homeopathy at all. Because of the internal division, Naturopathic Medicine is at a stand still. The only compromise is to make the subject an elective. I think making the course an elective is a move in the right direction.

    Bringing up the topic of lying to patients that homeopathy works…this does not happen. NDs are required to give patients informed consent and tell patients homeopathic remedies are things that at best only provide a placebo effect. This is what I regularly told patients who came to me during my internship year who actively sought out an ND for homeopathic treatment. I personally do not recommend homeopathic treatments at all in my practice, and I know many NDs who do the same.

    Perhaps during the time Hermes went to school, only a high school diploma was required for entrance into a Naturopathic program. It is not the case anymore. To get into the Canadian Naturopathic schools, you need to have an undergraduate degree as well, and you will have needed to complete pre reqs such as biology, physiology, chemistry, psychology etc. Yes, it is not competitive to get into the program, but that simply is because the general population does not know the profession even exists. It is only competitive to get into MD schools because people know that the profession exists and it is a profession of high social prestige. Thinking a profession is illegitimate because it is not competitive to get into doesn’t seem reasonable.

    Naturopathic Doctors are NOT taught to discourage the use of vaccines. Naturopathic doctors are pro vaccine. I was never taught to tell patients that they should use something more natural as an alternative to a vaccine. I was never taught there is a homeopathic vaccine equivalent. When I hear people point fingers at NDs for all the outbreaks in North America, I am shocked and surprised because we are a pro vaccine profession. I get angry because it was probably a bad apple in the profession who makes the rest of us look like we are in the same anti-vaccine boat. There is an unfortunate double standard, where if one ND does something wrong, then whole profession gets hit as well. This does not happen for dentists, physiotherapists, or MDs. So I want to be super clear that NDs are not anti-vaxers. It is against ND regulation to advertise/promote any anti-vax material on online websites or in patient visits.

    Never in my education have I heard of IV Ukraine. I do not know what that is, and I am sad patients were paying 1000s of dollars for something that was not going to help them. It is hard being an ND because any random "natural practitioner" who hasn’t at least gone to ND school can make up some natural product and say it is a naturopathic cure all. There is no such things a Naturopathic Cure all. MDs have asked me if I prescribe something called Phoenix tears or if I prescribe essential oils to cure things like cancer. The answer is NO. I have no idea where all these random treatments are coming from because I was never taught them.

    In Ontario, IV therapy is a very controlled act. It is regulated by a body called the College of Naturopaths of Ontario (CONO). This body was made to not protect NDs. It is a body made to protect patients. CONO will smack down anything they determine is unsafe or incorrect information that will hurt patients. IV tumeric/curcumin is not on the Ontario list of safe IV therapeutics.

    I think NDs, at least the ones in my graduating class, are very aware of their short comings. Whenever we find something is out of our scope or is in an area that we do not have any training in, we tell the patient we don’t have all the answers and to seek help from an MD. In my opinion, NDs do not see themselves as the superior doctors who know better than MDs. At least I do not see myself this way. Early on in Naturopathic school, I knew my education was very different from an MD’s education and if Hermes wasn’t able to identify that early on, I can see why she would be so devastated and disappointment and have a need to "expose" the profession. But just because it is different, doesn’t make it bad right off the bat.

    I think NDs actually help the medical profession…why? Because there are very sick patients who come to me and say they want to get off all their prescription medication and go "all natural". Because my education, I do not recommend that they come to the "wizarding world" and drop their meds for plants. I actually education them on WHY they must STAY ON their prescriptions, and that I can only provide supportive treatments like improve their diet and lifestyle. I do not aim to say plants are superior to prescriptions. I educate them on the need for balance, and I also take the time to be an active listener, esp to those patients who feel like their MDs are jerks who don’t listen. Listening, in itself can heal a lot.

    The Naturopathic profession does have many short comings that need to improve, but the profession is slowly improving in response to criticism from MDs, public criticism, patient criticism, and unfortunate cases where patients have been harmed. It isn’t a stagnant profession where if a mistake is made, it continues on and on to repeat the mistake. Often regulatory bodies like CONO will step in and demand for a change in treatment or policy.

    We are people who are in this profession to HELP people. If an ND does something that knowingly harms a patient, or takes advantage of the patient financially, it is on the individual, NOT the profession. Just like if an MD were to be an anti-vaxer, we should not think the whole MD profession is anti-vax. Instead we should just hold that one individual accountable for their wrong actions.

    This was a really great interview. Stepping into Hermes shoes, I can understand why she is so against Naturopathic Medicine. I would be as well. She really saw all the bad sides of the profession. I am grateful she has spoken up because this really kicks the profession’s butt and encourages it to improve itself. However I do believe the world of Naturopathic medicine that she experienced and talks about is becoming more and more of a distant reality. Things are different now.

  47. Gator70 on April 19, 2019 at 6:56 pm

    Great interview, really enjoyed this.

  48. Koala From Tomorrow on April 19, 2019 at 6:57 pm

    she wasnt a real naturopath beacuse she should of been taghut that with things like brain cancer send them back to doctos and she used word expdites which means they were still giong to die also notice has no files avablivewith evertying blured out but condton and the progress

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